Partner Episode: The Specifics Matter: Reinforcing Credibility in a Multi-Stakeholder Environment | Building Brand Gravity Podcast

In this special partner episode of Building Brand Gravity, G&S Integrated Marketing Communications Group’s Steve Halsey is joined by Eliot Mizrachi of Page and Rob Jekielek of The Harris Poll to unpack new research on the global state of confidence in business. The conversation dives deep into how companies can strengthen credibility in an era of skepticism, with only 26% of people saying they have high confidence in business to make a positive impact.

Transcript

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Eliot Mizrachi VO: [00:00:00] Welcome to the new CCO. I'm Eliot Mizrachi.

Today we're bringing you an episode from G&S Communications', fantastic podcast Building Brand Gravity. They were kind enough to invite me onto their podcast together with Rob Jekielek, managing director at the Harris Poll and a Page Up member to discuss insights from the Page / Harris Confidence in Business Index.

The index is our global public opinion study that examines how people perceive the role of business in addressing pressing societal issues across 14 different markets. It. Steve Halsey, the principal and chief Growth officer of G&S moderated our conversation as we covered how these findings offer a window into where stakeholder expectations are headed, reveal how confidence in business varies by region, age and political leaning, and what it all means for the expanding role of CCOs. Let's get into it.

Rob Jekielek: Social is one of the most relevant high impact sets of channels, but at the same time, that's not gonna be your silver bullet. Doing [00:01:00] three posts on social is not gonna break through. Just putting up a a landing page is not gonna get through. You really need to think in a much more holistic fashion, and you need to have like a consistent drumbeat.

Steve Halsey: Welcome to Building Brand Gravity. I'm your host, Steve Halsey. I'm excited today to talk about the global state of confidence in business. According to the latest page, Harris Poll Research, only 26% of people globally are very confident that companies can make a positive impact on the issues that matter most, even fewer.

Just 20% say they see companies providing both action and context with me today to discuss how we bridge the gap in confidence in business, why brands should care, and what chief communications officers should do about it. Are my friends of the pod, Eliot Mizrachi, VP strategy and [00:02:00] content for Page and  Rob Jekielek, who is the managing director of Harris Poll.

Gentlemen, welcome back to the show.

Rob Jekielek: Thanks for having us. Great to be here, Steve. So,

Steve Halsey: so let's start with some of the top line findings from this year's global research you guys put together, um, uh, research that tracks 16 key issues across. 14 global markets. You also interviewed 40 chief communications officers from around the world to really create a pretty comprehensive view of, of what publics are thinking, where business is at.

I mean, Rob, maybe you can kick us off by helping us unpack what you found to be the top six issues the public expects business to act on in 2025.

Rob Jekielek: Thanks for the setup, Steve. Uh, yeah, so when you, when you go across 14 countries and those 16 issues, there are six pieces that really bubble up. Uh, we'll talk a little bit, I think, uh, in, in a little bit about some of the differences by, by market, but there are six issues that kind of what, what we would call essential, right?

Um, it's a, it's a blend of different thing, so [00:03:00] it's a bit pretty dynamic landscape. Um, but the, the top three, uh, are around economic stability and growth, um, around job creation and workforce skills development, uh, and corruption. Corruption's, definitely an interesting one for conversation, especially since in a number of markets it's actually number one.

Um, so the, and the next three that fill out the whole kind of essentials gap are, uh, environmental issues, research and technological innovation, um, and mental health issues. I. Each, uh, all six of those are seen as very important for leading companies to make an impact on, uh, in aggregate across all those markets.

The majority of the population says that.

Steve Halsey: So Rob, when, when you guys put together that full list of, uh, the 16 key issues were, were you surprised

Rob Jekielek: in the top three? The top six, the one, the, the one that's always, I think drives a lot of intrigue is the, is is the one around corruption. So, and, and right now, I would just use that, especially in communications, corporate affairs parlance as a, as a very strong proxy for [00:04:00] reputational risk.

Right? So the, the word corruption can be everything from, um, I think my fees are too high. The, this company is acting in a corrupt fashion. Two, uh, this is a senator or a representative who's been indicted on 23 counts of malfeasance, uh, intersecting with, uh, foreign actors and, uh, occurring a lot of personal wealth, right?

So it's, it's a very large spectrum. And for that reason, just, you know, as with reputational risk, sometimes there's a, there's a 3% kernel of truth that gets turned into a, a much bigger story. Um. So very, I think that's a, it's a really important one. I think mental health is also really intriguing, uh, primarily because it over indexes so heavily on, on younger generations, um, across the board.

Steve Halsey: So, so  Eliot, when you, when you think about what Rob was talking about in terms of reputational risk and just, just the broader set, I. Of, um, things that rose to the top, how does that match up with the one-on-one conversations you were having with CCOs around the globe and, and any different perspectives you got from [00:05:00] those who may be based in the states versus elsewhere in the world?

Eliot Mizrachi: Yeah, so, uh, actually just to back up a moment, uh, the impetus for this study. Was Page interest in having more of a presence at events like Davos. And so we partnered with Rob & Harris to develop a piece of research that would underscore the role of the CCO as a real business leader and would focus on some of the challenges that they're facing.

One of the main ones being how do we contend with this range of societal issues? What are the expectations of us and our organizations to address those? Um, and what, what's the impact of that? And I think for a lot of CCOs. If you flashback, you know, four years ago, five years ago, uh, a lot of these issues, uh, particularly around DEI and ESG, they were really front and center and companies were really aggressive in their actions in pursuing those, uh, politic politics as it often does, you know, sort of moves over time.

And I think there were a couple of instances where companies. [00:06:00] Were, uh, chastened for some of the action that they took because of some negative reaction, uh, which caused some companies to think maybe a little bit more critically and judiciously about the issues that they ought to tackle. And so the idea behind this research was let's shed some light on what types of issues should really matter to organizations and importantly.

What action on those issues might produce in terms of confidence in business, uh, and confidence in their ability to have impact on those issues. What I think is interesting, which was kind of the point of doing this globally, is that those answers are really different across geographies.

Steve Halsey: Yeah, that'll be, that'll be.

We, I want to get into that in a, in a little bit talking about, uh, what you're seeing across the globe. But Rob, I thought it was interesting you, you looked at the issues that that. In terms of importance and in terms of confidence, can you, can you talk a little bit about, about what you found when you look at it through those two dimensions?

Rob Jekielek: Um, sure. I I actually, one of the points I was wanted to build on what, uh, what  Eliot said. Um, we made sure, and this [00:07:00] is, and it just makes sense that we have all the components of issues such as, yes, G and DEI included, we just don't use the terms ES, G or DEI, nor would we suggest that anyone use those. I mean, again, unless you've, you've, you've been invested in that acronym for a very, very long time, and the acronym is kind of part of your culture.

Um, it's probably best to, to kind of focus in on the specific issues underlying it, right? Where again, there's, I think there's a tremendous amount of work to be done and there's very little reason why many companies should, should back away from a lot of the underpinning ideas, but. We'll get to that, right?

So when you're, uh, when you're looking at the, uh, across all the, especially the, the six essentials, um, they're the, the one that's the standout in terms of highest confidence, although it's still pretty low, is around r and d and innovation, right? So that's the one that connects most easily and more, most intuitively with, uh, with, with, with the public.

Um, and that's where our confidence is highest, although still reasonably low. Um, also just when, when we're talking about confidence being low, we're also, we're not saying that the negatives are high, it's just the ambivalence is [00:08:00] high, right? So like, it's basically the, a low, uh, confidence in business indicates a lack of perspective, which, again, in today's reality, that's a big risk, right?

Because it's, you know, Paul, as, as you look at the overall geopolitical landscape, um, there's increasingly many more populist voices, populist leaders who. Can have, might pick on companies as kind of the, the reason for why things are going well or not going so well. Right? So that's the, that the big piece around a lack of competence is really a lack of definition.

Um, so again, highest definition on research and, and technological innovation. Lowest confidence on, uh, on corruption. So again, speaks to the, the fact that we're not just talking about individual company actions. In many cases, it's that intersection with kind of politics, government, et cetera, right? And, and across, uh, many, many governments, right?

You can see that like, uh, especially in like parliamentary uh, regimes, if you will, like. Very often one regime has is in for a long time and then changes [00:09:00] because of a corruption scandal. And that's kind of, that's not like something that's happening now that's like a decades long trend that you see pretty consistently.

Steve Halsey: Yeah, that was a, that was a fascinating one. And when we get into a little bit of slice of the data by, um, by generations, it's really interesting looking at that corruption viewpoint as well. So, so  Eliot, you know, as we get started in this conversation and we think about the importance and we think about the confidence.

How does that start shaping as we go through this discussions, how CCOs agency leaders, other senior comms professionals need to think about how do you start taking data like this, what you're hearing, uh, in your organization, and start thinking about how those come together.

Eliot Mizrachi: Yeah. So my first thought on that question actually, uh, is an emphasis on what Rob just said about.

The choice not to talk about ESG and DEI. You know, those are terms that are popular in the corporate vernacular, but are not the way that everyday people think about those issues. [00:10:00] And I think that's one of the lessons for CCOs is, you know, make that distinction. Think about what type of initiatives, programs, decisions you need to make at the corporate level in order to fulfill your mission, your values, all that stuff.

But then also, and I think part of what this research does is. Uh, meet consumers, meet stakeholders where they are on those issues, speak to them in terms that relate to, uh, how that issue shows up in their life. Uh, and so we deliberately chose not to focus on those terms, and we've actually done some separate research, not as part of the Harris poll, uh, that looks at.

What is the terminology that companies should be using when engaging on these issues? And, you know, terms like, you know, we're, we're making choices that, that allow us to be a responsible business, uh, that is far less polarizing than using terms like ESG and DEI, which, uh, in many respects. Uh, you know, their acronyms without meaning that have been given [00:11:00] meaning by a variety of different political actors.

And so I think being aware of the political environment is a big part of it, but also understanding stakeholders and what their expectations of the business are is really important.

Steve Halsey: Yeah.  Eliot, that's really important when you, when you ask people a, and kind of how you did in the research, when you're asking about gender equality or income.

Uh, inequality or racial or minority, um, equality. There are different ways that you could set that framing up that most people generally are going to say, yes, I agree with. However, the acronyms really got politicized. And I think that's gonna be another point to kind of put a pin in to come back as to how do you communicate in a, uh.

Hyperpolarized environment, knowing when and where to, uh, to engage. But I also thought, Rob, going back to just the, the sheer global nature of this, I thought it was fascinating looking at some of the regions that had extremely, um, high confidence vis-a-vis the other ones like Saudi Arabia and India versus [00:12:00] like, uh, the uk, Japan and Italy and, uh, the United States and Canada and Mexico were kind of, kind of middling.

So. What type of things did, did you think was interesting from a geographic standpoint, and what are some things that CCOs need to think about that?

Rob Jekielek: So you, you certainly do have, uh, some differences. So although overall confidence is relatively low, the DUS is actually very close to the average, just under the average.

Right? Uh, but you did have some markets, especially like well established markets such as the ones you, you named that, that are a lot lower on confidence. Um, and you had, uh, a lot of, uh, a lot of other markets. You could call them emerging. I think a lot are now established, but like if you're looking at Saudi Arabia, UAE, India, Brazil, where confidence was higher, right?

And I think the, the, there, there's a couple different things. So the first is when you look at some of the, those, let's call them emerging markets, right? You still, the role of companies is, could be very, very substantial. Where you see a very direct intersection between large scale [00:13:00] infrastructure development and things like that, right?

Where you can make a. Very substantive, very noteworthy and very tangible impact on kind of the economy. Um, and in many cases there's a closer intersection with with government because of the size and nature of a lot of those projects. Right. So again, I don't, I don't know if that's the, if, if it's saying that's the formula for success, it's more so saying that that is the, the reality on, on, on the ground right now in, in many of those markets, um, many of the kind of, uh, established markets are also kind of, there's a lot more companies doing a lot more things.

So it's harder to, to, to, for individual companies to, to break through. Um, they're also noisy these days on, on, on many different fronts. Um. But when you look across markets, there's also a difference in expectations, right? The, you know, the most consistent trend, and this one I think is pretty obvious when you play it out in terms of consumers' lives, is around kind of economic growth, right?

So like economic impact, economic growth. A really good translation of that is also like prices and inflation, right? So like the, your economic narrative is fundamentally important across every market. Um, but from there, you, [00:14:00] you have, you have quite a bit of like difference there. You know, there are some markets where we mentioned, you know, corruption is like the number one item like in places like China and, and the United Kingdom.

That is the number one that, uh, that consumers are saying they expect companies to, to make a big impact on, which is, that's interesting. Right. Um, you have other markets where, where you have issues, uh, such as, um, you know, negative impacts of AI and regulation of ai, that, that are much higher, that are into, into the essential set where in others that that's not the case.

Right. So, um, again, AI is a play in certain markets. Like the UK is an example where. Regulation of AI is, is a much higher expectation versus many other markets.

Eliot Mizrachi: Yeah. So on this notion that the economic issues are the ones that, that stakeholders seem to have the greatest expectations on, um, that's intuitive, right?

Like the business of business is business. And so that's where the focus ought to be. But even on some of these other societal issues, the research that I referenced earlier, one of the things that we found was that, [00:15:00] you know, connecting it to the interests of the business, to the profitability motive.

Those are things that make them seem more relevant to the business. And where you get in trouble is where it seems like companies are virtue signaling or making decisions based on a set of moral values that are being imposed on others. Whereas in many cases, the truth is that they're doing that because there is an interest in the business in, uh, in pursuing those issues.

And so I think one of the lessons here is. Be thoughtful about the issues that you decide to engage on and think about them and think about communicating them in ways that relate to the success of the business.

Steve Halsey: Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense. And I guess I, I throw this one out a little bit as a, as a jump ball then, you know, Rob, you covered that.

The top three issues most consistently across economic stability and growth, job creation, and workforce skills development and corruption tended to be fairly. Fairly consistent, but then some of the other, um, things that are being grappled on, uh, by region [00:16:00] change pretty wildly. So how can, how can a senior communicator use this kind of as a, as a blueprint to think about, I.

What are the things that I need to play up in d in different geographies? What are the things, what part of my narratives be, need to be consistent globally? And, and, and so how do you, how do you use those findings

Rob Jekielek: of those top three? Right. The, the first two are very proactive, right? So job creation and economic impact are very proactive ones to, and I mean, I think those are important because sometimes people like think they're, it's like captain obvious, but.

It actually isn't what you're leading with and it's not even part of your overall frame. Right? So I think it's a good reminder. Uh, the corruption one is more, as we talked about, it's more of like an indicator of risk. So it's like something you need to be, need to be prepared for and like it's really good for kind of like wild card question prep for your CEO, right?

And it's definitely a lot more on kind of rethinking materiality of risks. Um. But even some of the issues like environmental issues are quite consistent across most markets, but they, they over index in certain places like environmental issues. [00:17:00] Number two in Japan, number two in Mexico, uh, number two in Brazil, but essential in the majority of the markets that we looked at.

Um, the racial and minority equality also an essential issue in, in, in the us. Versus not as much in in, in many other markets. Uh, I think it's really, really important just to be judicious about those things. And, um, again, like I think one of the most interesting ones is mental health, where again, you see both a generational divide and you see a country divide, right?

Where again, it's if you're, there's many of these issues that if you just don't say anything. It's, it's basically like a, a relevance clue, right? Like you're, you're basically, you're, you're creating an an impediment for, for people to be able to listen to you. So if you're, if you're talking to a younger generation about how relevant your company is and why, why it's actually meaningful and important.

And, you know, especially if you're looking at career opportunities and you don't allude to things like mental health is just a huge miss. Like, you're just gonna be off the radar. That kind of thing.

Steve Halsey: So, so let's, let's, let's shift a little bit and, uh, let's talk about the generations in the workforce. So, generally accepted, we've [00:18:00] got four generations in the workforce.

Gen G, millennials, gen x, boomers. Depending upon your type of business, you may have an additional, uh, generation coming in, uh, working the counter at your store, things like that. I mean,  Eliot, how. How has the calculus changed in terms of just thinking how you need to communicate across generations?

Internally within the organization, um, depending upon brand externally, what, what are, what are some of the broad lens things that, uh, CCOs need to think about?

Eliot Mizrachi: You know, I, I am sure that there are all sorts of generational issues that are under consideration for external communication and how you engage those different audiences.

But honestly, most of what I hear from CCOs these days has to do with. Internal with the idea that you have different generations with different understandings and expectations of the nature of work and their relationship with their employer. Different work styles, um, grew up with different familiarity with technology.

And [00:19:00] so I think with that breadth of generational difference in the workforce all at once, uh, the idea of building, you know, singular and cohesive culture becomes more difficult because you have people with very different worldviews or mindsets. And so what I hear CCOs talk very often about is how do we bridge those divides internally across the employee base?

Um, and, and so I think that's a really important factor, especially as technology starts to disrupt so much of the work that we do and how we do it. And that doesn't assume that older generations wouldn't be able to keep up. In fact, you know, a lot of people from older than generations are quicker adoption.

Adopters than younger people are, and they have more of a perspective to be thoughtful about the implications of these kinds of things. So I think trying to understand internally how you engage the entire workforce across generations is a really important issue for CCOs today.

Steve Halsey: So, Rob, what does, what does the research say?

I mean, uh, when, when I saw you present this first, I was, was really struck by the differences that you [00:20:00] saw, particularly between Gen Z and Boomers. But, but what's some of the top takeaways when you start slicing it by, uh, generational lens?

Rob Jekielek: Um, yeah, I mean, I think the reason why right now, the generational divide, uh, between.

Gen Z and boomers is so important is that in more and more markets, you're seeing kind of an equilibrium for those two groups in the workforce. Right. So in like, not all countries yet, but in many countries in the US and in a bunch of western European countries, you have somewhere around a quarter of the, of the active work workforce is now Gen Z, which is, that's kind of like a new trend as of the, the, the last six months.

So that makes it very noteworthy, right? Because before it would've been just a co a couple voices saying, Hey, I expect this and this, and people are like, well, it's kind of like there's not very many people now. It's now, it's a really substantial part of the, of, of the population, right? Where it's, you're, you're probably, it's something like, you know, 25% is Gen Z, 25% is Boomer.

I. And there's a big divide there. So there's, you know, as, as an example, like three of the big issues when you, [00:21:00] when you're looking at the younger generation are, as we said, mental health is number two, really high expectation. It's also number three with millennials, so younger trend. Um, but then with Gen Z you also have gender equality and racial minority equality globally across the 14 countries that that pop.

It's just a, it's a different kind of issue spectrum that's relevant to them. Um, versus if you're looking at boomers, they really, really narrow in on those top three issues, right? So again, economics, jobs and skills and corruption, right? Part of the are the big three that are, that are real kind of like standouts.

Eliot Mizrachi: What I might, what I might just add there, Steve, you know, it sort of goes to the point about the economic value that business creates that, and this is just me kind of speculating based on the result. Older generations, you know, their relationship with work is. Maybe more economic in nature. Uh, I provide economic value to this organization.

It provides economic value to me in the, in the form of compensation. Younger generations view their relationship with work [00:22:00] more like a third place I. You know that this is a place where I belong, uh, where, you know, I'm, I'm working towards creating an inclusive environment. Um, issues like mental health and wellbeing are more germane to the work experience for, for those people than they might be for older generations.

So I think Rob's point is really well taken that even in, in the similarities across generation, there are some lessons, uh, about how those generations think differently.

Steve Halsey: So with all those generations in the workforce that you're trying to keep happy and productive, I mean, what, what are, what are some tips?

I mean, you know, different generations want different messages based on what we're seeing. Different generations want that message to be delivered in a different way. What are, what are, what are some tips or takeaways or, or what, what have you heard from CCOs that. Have been fairly successful in helping build a fairly cohesive, um, culture across the generations.

A few things

Eliot Mizrachi: come to mind. [00:23:00] Um, one is, I, I, I think this kind of goes to the building of an inclusive culture. I think open form formats for communication are really important opportunities for employees, not only to express their ideas or concerns or beliefs to management, but also for employees to hear that from each other and foster a greater understanding across generation, which I think is really important.

And that's true, not just of generational issues. I think that's true, true. More broadly. Um, I, I, I think another thing would be, um, we have more of an ability now. Through technology and comtech to, uh, customized tailor messages. And while I'm absolutely not saying that companies ought to be saying one thing to one group and another thing to another group, I think you have to be saying the same thing.

Your message should be the same, but you might frame it or express it in different ways for different organizations or emphasize different elements of it. [00:24:00] In ways that, again, meet those people where they are. And so I think segmentation, targeting, optimization through iteration, those kinds of things are all tools in the toolbox to understand those different stakeholder groups, understand what their beliefs and behaviors might be, and to tailor messaging to them accordingly, uh, so that it feels as relevant to them as possible.

Steve Halsey: Rob, anything else in the data as we think about kind of the, uh, cross generational engagement that, uh, that's gonna be important for our listeners to understand?

Rob Jekielek: Uh, I mean, I'll, I'll just pull on some additional threads that, that we pretty consistently see. Just building on what  Eliot was saying, I think right now trying to, um, not trying to like humanizing your company and really humanizing your leadership is more important than ever.

'cause it's really, it's very easy to get stuck into like. Kind of like pure channels and technology and things like that, right. We're it did, in terms of the humanization, you need to use the technology a lot better to, to, to be clear. Um, but to, I think one of the, especially as, as you're looking at internal [00:25:00] audiences, um, being able to relate these issues to things like culture and really into kind of understanding, driving both strategy and kind of career development is, is essentially important.

And really being able to meet people where they are. Right? I mean, there's, you know, there's, every company we work for has such a diversity of different talent, right? If you're, if you're working for like an airline, or if you're working in auto, or if you're working in manufacturing, right? You have a lot of different people that play different roles in different settings, right?

So you have to really figure out how to, how to bring that to life the right way. And I don't know if it's, it's not like saying different things to different people like, or it's not like trying to hide something. It's saying, you know, really relating to. Um, a the culture of the company, the values of the company, but bringing it to life through kind of strategy jobs to get done.

Uh, I mean, I think right now a lot of people's heads are very, very practical as well, right? Like they're in, we, we see this very consistently. People's like home lives, like people are quote unquote more conservative, but that's because they're financially feeling insecure. [00:26:00] So like people aren't feeling like politically more conservative.

They're feeling that, you know, again, they're feeling very practical. I have to make decisions for, for myself, for my family. Like if I'm doing a job, I wanna understand why I'm doing this job, but frame it in a way that's like meaningful and impactful to me. Right. But you we're in practical times versus kind of like, you know, esoteric aspirational times?

I would say.

Steve Halsey: Yeah, I think, I think, I think everything you guys are saying is, is key. 'cause it really hits the idea that one size can't fit all. But to your point,  Eliot, you still need to be telling the same story, the same narrative, which, which leads to where I'd kinda like to pivot a little bit. Okay. So we've identified, we've identified there's a, there's a lot of commonalities.

We've identified there's a lot of gaps. And one of the things, Rob, I thought was really interesting when I first saw you present this information was. Really kind of talking about the confidence curve and just the difference that you have in terms of impact that you're able to make by the ability to put [00:27:00] together action and context.

Can you, can you talk about that a little bit and, and set that up for us?

Rob Jekielek: Yeah. I, I think the, you know. We're hoping that the confidence curve is a very useful tool for communicators, right? So again, we we're looking at 14 countries, we're looking at 16 issues. Uh, one of the things we also asked about is how and what to what degree are you hearing from leading companies on each one of these things.

And there, there's four kind of four tiers, if you will. The first is I'm not hearing much from the company. I don't really know what they're doing. The second is I'm seeing company action, but I'm not really, really under, don't really understand what or why they're doing. Um, you know, I'm hearing company perspectives, but I don't really see any action.

Uh, and the third is I'm seeing both action and clear explanation or clear context. Right. And those four, when you combine them with. The level of confidence in aggregate across all markets, across all those issues. What you very quickly see is that if people don't see any action or any perspective, like confidence is gonna be abysmally low, much lower than the, than the global [00:28:00] average.

Um, it gets ever so modestly higher, but very niche impact if you're seeing action. Very similar if you're only seeing perspectives, right? People just talking about an issue. Um. Versus once you actually get both of those combined together, confidence across issues, and it's, it's a one-to-one on every issue, right?

Springs to like majority impact, right? So you're moving from confidence being in the 15, 20 range to over 50%, right? So you're moving to majority confidence and it's pretty intuitive if you're working communications, that that should be true. It's just that is not the reality that most people are seeing.

Like, so the, it's action plus context equals confidence, right? And think of confidence as a good kind of short to medium term goal versus just things like trust and reputation, right? What I'm trying to do is establish confidence on this very specific thing, um, versus saying that we are the, the leader in some sort of a grandiose, aspirational fashion.

We're just trying to move the needle a little bit forward. Um, and again, we'll get to the implications, right? But you really need to be able to narrow your [00:29:00] focus in order to do that, right? Like. A press release or a social post is not gonna be your winning ticket here, right? You really need to reprioritize and think about like, how do I really tell a story in a dynamic omnichannel fashion, and how do I reinforce it?

Right. And how do I ensure there are very clear examples and actions that we are taking that are backing up whatever we're saying.

Steve Halsey: So, so  Eliot, when you think about the role of the CCO and how that's evolved, um, you know, we've always traditionally tried to create the context, tell the story, what is it about, what, what is, what is going on, how should you think about it, how should you frame it?

How can the CCO then really help drive that companion part of action? What do they need to do with their fellow C-suite, uh, officers to really be able to marry those two together?

Eliot Mizrachi: Yeah, I, I'm glad that you acknowledged that this is familiar territory for communicators. There's explaining the confident, the [00:30:00] context as a means of explaining the action is something that communicators are adept at.

And I think certainly one of the things that CCOs ought to be doing is making the case for that. But to your point, one of the things that we're seeing in CCO leadership is that the CCO. Role is diversifying. In some cases it's expanding to include areas like public affairs, brand marketing, sustainability, but even in instances where the remit isn't growing, the sphere of influences.

And, and what that requires is CCOs who are working cross-functionally to enact the mission, the vision, the purpose, and oftentimes, you know, decisions on the issues that that rob's research tests. Are guided to some extent on purpose and values, and yes, materiality. You know, whether there's, you know, the business has a material relationship to the issue, whether the issue has a material relationship to the business.

And [00:31:00] so I think a big part of CCO leadership on these issues is. Unearthing that materiality and working cross-functionally to make sure that the organization's actions, whether they decide to take one or not, are consistent with values, purpose, uh, the cco, o more than anybody in the C-suite, has that broad purview.

It's one of the reasons why we see CCOs increasingly taking on responsibilities that benefit from. A broader stakeholder lens, right? More CCOs involved in HR because employees are important stakeholder group more in ESG and sustainability. So I think critically important is for CCOs to identify the, the partnerships and the coalitions within the C-suite that they need to build in order to make sure that the action matches the context.

Because ultimately the con, what the confidence curve shows is. If, if there's connectivity between what you're doing and how you're [00:32:00] describing it, that instills confidence. And if there's not. That's where you get into trouble.

Steve Halsey: Yeah. And I, I thought it was interesting, you know, the formula seems like it should be pretty simple.

Action and context means you're gonna be up over 50%. But when you look at, uh, the data globally, I mean, what did it net out to Rob about? 20, 20%. So it seems like there's, there's a lot of opportunity. What, what do you think are the, are the barriers to that, to the, to the confidence gap that we're

Rob Jekielek: really talking about?

Prioritization and consistency. So that's like the a prioritization, like being able to say these are, these are the, these are the core pillars of what we're gonna focus on. Like, and spend whatever, it's 75% of your time, like you had, there's a lot of other stuff you need to do, but that should take like 20 to 20% of your time, right?

So prioritization and getting buy-in from your leadership team on prioritization is essentially important. Um, and then consistency, right? It's kind of like, you know, again, I. I think everybody knows this when [00:33:00] I say it out loud, but if you're doing something on social, it is gone like this. So social is one of the most relevant high impact sets of channels, but at the same time, like that's not gonna be your silver bullet.

Doing three posts on social is not gonna get, it's not gonna break through. Like just putting up a, a landing page is not gonna get through. Just building it into your, into a one like executive speaking engagement is not gonna break through. Just building it into kind of one piece of paid content or advertising is not gonna break through.

You really need to think in a much more holistic fashion, and you need to have like a consistent drumbeat.

Steve Halsey: So, so  Eliot, with all this great data, and so when you, when you think about all the research that you guys did, all the conversation, what's your advice to CCOs, agency leaders, senior comms? How do they use this research?

Uh, what do they, what do, what should they, what should they do next?

Eliot Mizrachi: Well, one of the things they should do next is something that I know many CCOs are doing now, which is develop a methodology or a framework. For determining whether and how to [00:34:00] engage on the issues that are relevant to the organization and the approaches that I see CCOs taking can range from, uh, really simple, you know, just a series of very basic questions.

How does this issue relate to our values? What is our history on this issue? Um, what do employees think about this issue? Uh, to the very sophisticated where companies are. Collecting data, you know, doing essentially internal and external research in order to inform choices about. Issues where there's an opportunity for the organization to have a positive impact and where that would be welcomed and issues where maybe it's wiser not to.

And that's not to say that there are issues where companies can't or won't have a positive benefit, but to Rob's point, prioritization is really important. Which are the issues that matter most to your organization and, and how are you going to marshal the resources, the attention, the commitment that it requires?

To have a real meaningful impact. You [00:35:00] know, you, if you're spread too thin across issues, it can't help but feel superficial. But when there are specific issues that as an organization you've determined these are things that are material to our business, they're material to our stakeholders, and there's an opportunity for us to have a positive impact, and by the way, have an impact that that contributes to our ability to be a stronger, more vibrant business.

I think those, that's a really compelling argument.

Steve Halsey: Yeah. And I, and I think, I think we've really seen kind of a mat maturization within, um, the comms profession of how do you address that dilemma of action and context for, for a little bit, it felt like a pinball machine. Like we all have to respond to everything, uh, and have opinion on everything everywhere.

And try and put it in context, but I think that's the point. Where you started with  Eliot, where you were saying it comes across a little bit disingenuous if it's not really what is that core focus that we want? What gives us that license to have that conversation, I think is, uh, is, is [00:36:00] really, really important.

Uh, particularly as easy as, as it is to be seen as taking sides and, and with, uh, with, with different framework going on with politics. And, and you know, one of the things. I thought was a really interesting statement at, uh, the, the page spring seminar a few weeks ago was when we were talking about engagement.

One of the speakers made the comment said Add light, not heat, which I thought was, uh, was, was a really interesting, um. Comment because again, when you think about light, add heat, that's add context. Show what we're doing from action wise, but that also means don't get caught up in like the tit for tat or some of those, those other things.

I mean, I wasn't sure. Did you guys have any kind of, uh, e either here with, with your CCO interviews or any recent discussions? Anything really stand out? For you guys that somebody said in context of the research or the current, uh, landscape that we're at,

Rob Jekielek: one of my favorites in terms of [00:37:00] application of a lot of this right, is, um, talking with, um, A CCO who's also A-A-C-M-O.

She works in the semiconductor space and she's, she's had both those roles and different kind of variations for, for a long time. Um, and one of the things she kind of emphasized, which I, I I think it makes, uh, a lot of sense and how it's applied makes a ton of sense, right? Is focus on things like brand at more of like a macro, regional or global level.

Um, and then really focus your comms at much more of a, a, a, a localized level. Right. I think that's like, so it's, you know, you wanna have consistency and priorities. Like if you, if you, if you're responsible for brand, you wanna have some big ticket items that roll up together. But as you're bringing it to life on the ground, especially for a global company, like your communications dynamic is the essential thing for, for, for bringing it to life.

Right. That's where, again, what you wanna have is like big global examples, right? And, but you also wanna bring it to life in a very, very local context. So I really like that. 'cause there's, I think I've seen a lot of companies try and do the brand thing like on the [00:38:00] ground and it looks a little bit crazy, right?

It's basically just kind of like, uh, you know. A lot of activity and not very clear as to why it's happening. And it's kind of all this like funny language and positioning and things like this, right? Versus being able to kind of pause and stop for a second and say, no, these are kind of our big fundamentals.

We're just gonna focus those assets there. Um, and then on, for the communications side, really bringing, being able to kind of. Bring much more context and much more specific action on the ground. So acting off both of a lot of consistency, but bringing it to that local level. And I think communications is very well suited to do that.

And a lot of kind of the assets and channels that that are typically communications are much, much better tuned to it, right? It's much more organic in nature versus kind of like paid and promotional in nature, if you will.

Steve Halsey: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.  Eliot, how about you?

Eliot Mizrachi: Uh, well, I I love the light, not heat one.

I, I think there's, there's so much richness in that lesson. Uh, another one that stuck out to me was, uh, focus on policy, not politics. And, and just as it [00:39:00] relates to this conversation, uh, I, I think it's fair to acknowledge that neutrality is a position, like no position is a position today. And even where there are issues where organizations might choose.

Not to engage on a particular issue. There will be stakeholders of one shape or another who are disappointed by that. And so I think even providing the context. The explanation as to why the organization has chosen not to engage on a particular issue is important. And one of the ways that, that you can sort of steer clear.

I mean, there's all these culture war issues and companies understandably don't wanna get caught up in any of that, but their focus is on policy and not politics, right? It is about the choices that the business is making and how those choices have an impact on society. Uh, and so I think whatever companies can do to.

Explain to reinforce the idea that what we're interested in is policy that works and not the politics. And the more you steer, you know, [00:40:00] your message and your position into politics, the more risk there is.

Steve Halsey: Yeah. That I, I, I think that's, that's really good advice. And, and, you know. As I think about all the research that you guys did, speaking of richness, a lot of richness in here.

Um, and I, I could, I could talk for hours and go deep on all this, but, uh, but we're getting near the end. So I wanted to ask each of you just any final thoughts or advice that you have, uh, for the CCOs, the senior agency leaders, even, even, uh, younger professionals that are listening to this, either based on the research or just in general.

Any final thoughts you have about the global state of confidence in business?

Rob Jekielek: As, as with all things, right? The, the whole idea, whenever you're doing research with external constituencies or external stakeholders, you need to match it with like an internal reality, right? So, um, we're really proud of this work with, uh, with page, and I think our favorite part of it is the fact that it's turning into a lot of page conversations like market by market.

'cause that's where the, the real kind of rubber [00:41:00] hits the road, if you will. Right? So if anything, the research kind of beck. It kind of challenges you to, to think about certain priorities and context of your business. Um, and, and it, it kind of behooves us to kind of think about those questions and how they fit into our strategy.

So I think that's the, like, this is a good starting point for a conversation versus saying, this is the, this is the answer of what you need to do tomorrow. I think there's a lot of key principles that are baked in here. Um, but it's, it's a really good starting point. I think the most important part of it is, uh, it's, it's a, it's a great kind of, you know, page global conversation, which, uh, you know, I really enjoy, there's so many dynamic people, um, across the globe.

So whether you're talking about the Middle East or Asia Pacific, or Europe or Latin America or the US or Canada,

Eliot Mizrachi: I think what I would add to that. Which covers mostly everything I was thinking is, um, there is an understandable tendency of organizations today to want to retreat from some issues for fear of the risk of engaging on them.

Uh, I would, I would counsel prudence [00:42:00] over disengagement. Uh, there is still, uh, and I think the research shows this, you know, even though they weren't top ranked issues, there are significant groups. Of people who care about a variety of issues that businesses have an opportunity to impact. And while I, I think it's probably a poor choice for organizations to try to be all things on, all issues to all people.

Um, I. I do think that the issues on which organizations decide to engage and the manner of engagement and the level of commitment that they demonstrate to that issue over the long term, right, not wavering. Uh, I think those things do serve to build trust and, and I would argue they build trust even among those who disagree with the organization.

You know, you hear from time to time there's a boycott over this or a boycott over that, and those things peter out over time. And I think it's because, you know, as human beings. We can, we're still capable of disagreeing without disengaging. [00:43:00] And so I would argue that prudence and following research, like what what Harris has done with Paige here, I think helps to form a, a, you know, a stronger opinion about which issues are the ones that we can really have a positive impact on which ones are gonna affect confidence.

And as a CCO, how am I gonna counsel our C-suite on. Which opportunities, the ones we should pursue and which ones aren't, and not for nothing. I think engagement on these issues by organizations is an important way to build brand gravity. Which is why I think this venue is a great venue for this conversation.

Steve Halsey: Yeah, and, and you know, as I, as I think about a lot, a lot of this and just all the change that, that we're dealing with, and it's easy to get caught up, I I say day to day, hour to hour, second to second pretty much. But, you know, it really is coming down to a lot of those core principles of having a clear strategy, knowing what you stand for, when and where you wanna engage.

Um, and then really demonstrate what that action and context is. And I think the research is really, really rich, looking at the perspectives across, [00:44:00] uh, different geographies, looking across different generations. So I would encourage all of our listeners to go check that out. If you go to page.org to the blog section, you will find, uh, the latest research building public confidence six.

Essential. Issues for business leadership. It's, uh, really exciting stuff. I'd recommend you share it with your team and with your C-Suite. So, um, Rob  Eliot, thank you as always for being, uh, friends of the pod. Um, excited to have you back and honored to have you back again this year, sharing your research after you, uh, unveiled it at Davos.

And I'd like to invite everybody listening to make sure you follow  Eliot and Rob. Uh, we'll put, uh, their LinkedIn information in the trailer here. So they're full of deep thoughts, insights, on the industry. So guys, thank you so much for, for joining us today. And for our listeners, thank you so much for joining,, building Brand Gravity.

Check back soon for our next [00:45:00] issue.

Eliot Mizrachi VO: This conversation was part of our rollout of the insights from the Confidence in Business Index with our Page and Page Up members around the world. As those regional discussions wrap up, we'll be back with more wisdom from our members about what's next for the communications function. So don't forget to subscribe.

Thanks to G&S communications for having me on to discuss the findings and letting us share this episode with you. Until next time, I'm Eliot Mizrachi, and this is the new CCO.